|
Post by voltage on Oct 5, 2006 13:49:03 GMT -5
It has popped up again, and instead of talking about it in personal logs I decided to set it up here. Let us all try to be civil with this, we dont want o make a mess Enchant will have to clean up later.
Homosexuality. My first quirm is how can anyone belive in both Homosexuality and Evolution? Is there not some contradiction? We've got one that says were being perfected over millions of years and the other says oops, im trapped in the wrong body. And why is there such a fuss about 'equal treament'. I tried doing that a few days ago and that seemed to make most think me a raving lunatic. However if a gay does it, they are just fighting for their rights. Theres one thing wrong with homosexuality, the parts dont match. You wanna say that you were born a certain way, your right. But homosexuality is a choice in the mind.
Opinions please.
|
|
|
Post by jagggar on Oct 5, 2006 14:01:50 GMT -5
This is gunna be fun!
I'll just pick this part out to start with: But as I understand it, most homosexuals don't feel that way. It's the transgendered/transexual group that feels trapped in the wrong body.
|
|
|
Post by voltage on Oct 5, 2006 14:12:24 GMT -5
Alright. For the sake of clumping, Ill set those apart. Homosexuals and Transexual Homosexuals (hard to type) should be addressed seperatly.
For the normal homo's I think what they are doing is not ok. There is a reason why there are females and males of all species (rule out non-gender microorganisms). Not to mention that AIDS runs rampanin homosexuals, can anyone explain that?
For the Trans crowd. Same as my first post, how can evolution be so perfect yet you got trapped in the wrong body? For most materialists saying the body is seperate from the spirit is a stretch! And also, how come normal marraige is frowned upon, by hollywood (it doesnt work, its miserable, people arent happy, etc) but homosexuality is ok! Im so lost.
|
|
|
Post by jagggar on Oct 5, 2006 14:23:57 GMT -5
Have you heard of Africa? AIDS runs rampant EVERYWHERE.
|
|
|
Post by Aaron on Oct 5, 2006 14:34:21 GMT -5
Actually I think in the gay world and tran's world...well I would say Alternative as a whole AID's isn't as bad as some would like to paint it. We know what we are doing and we know the risks. I know the physical risks I'm putting my partner in and I'm also taking precautions so that when we are in these situations I have a plan to get her out of it so it doesn't hurt her, or mentally mess her up.
Now also too we all know that you can get AIDS. Which is the thing you'r playing with. But, people are still going to do it. Can't scare everyone into not doing it. It's also true that majority of people in Africa have AIDS. The reason why is because they won't wear a condom or use any form of protection. Once again they are running hte risks.
Oh, and also too in the porn world the only people that have a DEFINET protection in there vid's are the gay people and tranny people and all that. It's the straight vid's and such that don't. So I think while it's frowned apon it does speak volumes. Oh, and also too it was straight's that got the STD scare. NOT! Homosexuals. Which is what caused them to shut down making vid's and such. Another very interesting fact.
Transexuals? There is an allure and a wonder in what to be the other side. It's very natural it's just a curiosity of wondering and wanting to see what the other side is like. Sometimes it's very pronounced in people and sometime's it's just a thought here or there.
But, the fact remains is that we as a culture is and always will be facinated when it comes down to sex and sexuality. In Hollywood we wanna know who is with who and if they Really did it. We want to see what there kid is liked we are ALL into it. Even those that say they are "hardcore" christians. And, sexuality comes in very wide range. I know certain will say that "rapists" and "child molesters" fall underneath it. But, lets get real. Anyone with a brain will see that they arn't alternative at all and not apart of the Alternative group.
You may not even like it and yet people find it facinating. It's the way people have been for so long. It's just that now WITH the internet gays, lesbian's, tran's, leather people all of that is connecting people. That is good and that is bad. I know people that are in each of the mentioned groups and other lifestyles that HATE the fact that the internet and the fact that there are people on there. They are seen as "fantasiests" and such. But, no matter what society's going to have to take a look at this. Because, this is the place to come to to find people that are what I call your kink, and chat and talk with them. Also too it's more society appropriate. It's "Cute" that people do this online. Some people wouldn't dream of the fact that "Earl" may actually do those things in r/t.
edit- And too just get this out of the way not all tranny's *Male to female, and Female to Male* are all gay. Also too not all of the tranny's have the surgery. Some just enjoy dressing up every now and then. Some of the do feel a bit wrong with there sexuality and there sex and do get the surgry. -shrugs- whatever.
When you open Pandora's box it isn't easy shutting it. Also too the beauty and also the thing that I think the "Vanilla" world *That is Alternative slang for those that don't have a kink in there body. Although I think that term is crap* has a problem the most with is that there must be some rule book. There must be something written down that say "this is this..and that is that". It's not! Although each group has it's own thing. Has it's own kinda what the masses will find as acceptable and not acceptable. That too is also a problem in the alternative world. Because, people no matter what want to be in the "IT" crowd. So they get use to these things and when another person wiht a wierd kink comes along they turn away from that person. They say.."ohhh that isn't what we are about". And, they act the same as some of the more conservatives out there. They sound just like them. So it's very hard to even be in some of these groups and lifestyles.
I think the reason people do that is because they get use to there own sexuality. They get use to it and it becomes a part of themselves. So there for when someone or something new pops up it can be challenging to accept that. Although, you hope that eventually it washes away and those "catagorys" inside the lifestyle. Like "I'm gay" or "I'm bi" or "I'm transexual" it hopefully gets to "I'm me".
I'v said all of this because maybe it'll give you an insight on what it's like to being alternative. Not everyone's going to like what is said above. I'v said a few bad things about my group and other groups and they don't like that. but, they are going to have to live with it. I'v known about the alternative world 5 going on 6 years this fall.
This thread though was to open up and more civially talk about homosexuality. Which is great. I know that I'v touched on other lifestyles too but that is just the thing. You can be gay or bi or lesbian and be involved in other things. So really we are a big blanket of things.
A quick ps and this is it. When I said kink I wasn't totally meaning sexual. A kink to me is from sexual to cuddling in bed or kissing someone...there are intimate non sexual things in these lifestyles that people do get. A deeper love. Some kinda supernatural or instinctual thing where you can just know your lover is upset or sad or what is going on. It's almost like a harmony of two souls. It's very deep and very intense.
|
|
|
Post by voltage on Oct 5, 2006 16:04:54 GMT -5
Well, not everybody does it, as we can see by the american public itself. Youd be the first person i know who claims they are homosexual outside of hollywood. No Im not buying the whole exploring ones sexuality. It sounds more like people who are doing this are lost and arent sure who they are, even what they are. Sounds more like a psychological/self-esteem problem to me, which explains why hollywood started it. Did you know that? Homosexuals are a very small percentage. Now a lot of people scream Im homosexual for attenton also. Lets look at the entire spectrum: Now on this scale, a lot of people can take their place. Most of the people I knew who claimed they were homosexual, really wanted attention. A lot of people know this. Hollywood has invented this lovely alternative lifestyle, and with all the gays in elevision and movies its obvious they will proceed as they always do, by shoving it down our throats until we say ok ok! its ok! So why not explore sexuality with one woman? Doesnt that sound a lot nicer than lots of people? I mean we all know the bible says marraige first then sex but lets look at it from an emotional point of view. Sex with one person, one your committed to at the highest level of commitment = more trust, more devotion, and all that intense relational stuff you said. Sex with multiple people accumulating, people you know for a small period sometimes none at all, and people you do know but dont have a high level of commitment = lots of sexual intimacy and experience with people you dont stick with indefinetly. not to mention that after having sex with them and leaving them you just shared a deep emotional bond with someone who has no obligation to stay with you. you do the math, there is the formula.
|
|
|
Post by jagggar on Oct 5, 2006 16:40:29 GMT -5
If homosexuality is a Hollywood brand Alt.Lifestyle, then could you explain to me who the woman my former-lockerpartner's mother lives with is?
And while that could be considered a representation of the "homosexuality spectrum", that's not a representation of the entire sexuality spectrum. You've left off asexuals for example.
|
|
|
Post by voltage on Oct 5, 2006 17:17:57 GMT -5
asexuals? This is what I know about people who say they change sexes. Its an impossibility. People who say you can change sex, hold up these experiements where they swapped parts and the parts work. However, how can anyone say that they were born a certain way through evolution and now change to the opposite sex and say see! this is rpoof of evoltuion while it denies it!
And you lost me on the first comment, you usually have to actually know the person to understand thier status. A huge part of the gay population is simply kids rebelling against their parents or a desperate cry for attention. Ive known enough people like this to understand that.
|
|
|
Post by Aaron on Oct 5, 2006 17:29:30 GMT -5
The "attention" banter that alot of people I would say that are the more conservative. Is crap. Maybe it's true for kids but not for adults. You can pretty much shove it for all we care. We are going to keep doing this wiether you like it or not. Weither you make it illegal or legal. And, that is the truth. At least when it comes to me. The alternative world as a whole has been around since probably the Dawn of time. It was NEVER EVER made by Hollywood. if you want to blame anything for the fact that Alternative Lifestyles have grown in "popularity" or gotten out there more Blame the INTERNET!
We do it because we get a deeper lever then say being "Vanilla". It's not a bad or a wrong thing.Being Vanilla is great and is important. That is true. Being just with a person and not bring in every kink known to man IS important. It is. No one I think will really say that it's important to bring in everything. Now obviously can't really be vanilla when you'r gay or lesbian. Just can't. Although you can just be intimate and such with your partner and not have all the other parts. And also too yeah there are TONS of people that get lost in there kink and have to have it. But those people will and do crash eventually. You have to have the intimacy you do to survive in kink. Especially if you bring in other partners. You have to be so open to talking to one another and communication.
Communication's the key to all this. If you don't you'r dead in the water and should stop where you are.
When it comes to kids and the alternative world I don't know about. I'm not to sure nor do I think it's wise that a kid should pick up a crop or tie someone up. Even though this does happen and I agree when you are a kid you are trying to find yourself. Although if they are later in high school maybe they are what they say that they are. But, I don't think that for the most part kids should step into the world of alternative. You can Die from some of these things if you don't do it right. Because there are people out there that can hurt you physically or mentally/emotionally. They are bad guys. But, there are bad guys in the vanilla world too.
I come from the adult world of this. I didn't get involved in the alternative lifestyle till I was 17 and pretty much an adult in the Law's eyes.
|
|
|
Post by jagggar on Oct 5, 2006 17:38:52 GMT -5
As far as communication goes, could you put up a list of terms, Aaron? I've got a general idea on some of them, but it seems as though they have a different feeling to them the way you use them. I'd say the main things I'm lost about is what "alternative" encompasses (I know you've already said a few things it doesn't include, but what does it include?) and what qualifies as a "kink."
|
|
|
Post by Aaron on Oct 5, 2006 18:15:57 GMT -5
As far as communication goes, could you put up a list of terms, Aaron? I've got a general idea on some of them, but it seems as though they have a different feeling to them the way you use them. I'd say the main things I'm lost about is what "alternative" encompasses (I know you've already said a few things it doesn't include, but what does it include?) and what qualifies as a "kink." check your pm's. But what can say is communication is..basically you want your communication to be to the point where you can say anything and everything and it'll be alright. Not that they won't be mad or upset. That is perfectly okay. It's in how you deal wiht that anger. Like you don't want to go and slap the person and if you do feel that need go take it out on a wall. Go toss pillows or something. There are also safe words and such that people use. Once it is sad people stop. They stop that second. If you keep it up you can REALLY leave damage to the person mentally and also depending on what you are doing could leave physical injury's. I'v tried 2 or three times to really say what Kink and alternative is and it isn't. I can't really say what that is. I don't think anyone can. It's a personal deal. I can try and generalize it but it won't work. It's what you really think kink and alternative is and isn't. My thing is bdsm aka D/s. We have a thing. It's really something you tell newbies and such. Newbies are new to the life. Anyhow, it's this Safe, Sane and consentual I think this doesn't just encompass my lifestyle I think it compasses ALL of this. Because when you talk about one like homosexuality it's going to lead to other things. Just is lol. But, safe sane and consentual isn't what a group or what someone says and people fallow. It's what you think is safe and sane and consentual. Me? I wouldn't bring a gun or a knife into play but sometimes people do. Wierd and odd and strange as it can be. You couldn't pay me a million dollars. But, I know people that would and do. That is great. They have the communication and the trust down to do it. So while it is safe, sane and consentual you'r going to have your mind challenged and your beliefs and kinks and things challenged. But, you also realize that there is at least a few things you do that you and your partner Love to do and they go "no thank you. No way. Not for a thousand dollars". kink tends to be more sexual in nature. See why it's hard? lol. It's not easy actually saying what it all is. Which is why I think it's more personal. This isn't for everyone true. Not alot can handle seeing there lover with another woman or man. Lots can't handle seeing their partner dressed up as the opposite sex. It's a very personal and intense thing getting into the alternative world. Lots of times people get caught up into it. IT's not good nor healthy. Which is why no matter what we do we'll always be out on the outer relm's of things. Now there will always be more people open to gays and lesbians. Yet if it comes to someone that is a transexual or like me bdsm I doubt it. We cut a vein that is very hard for the masses to handle. Which is fine. As far as like a contract goes I couldn't and I wouldn't put up a list on this board. It's not the place for it. I don't even know if I would pm it to tell the truth. Because some of the things on there I wouldn't want my kids to do. No way.
|
|
|
Post by voltage on Oct 5, 2006 20:39:49 GMT -5
Aaron youve lost me completely, what are you addressing?
|
|
|
Post by Aaron on Oct 5, 2006 23:22:21 GMT -5
Aaron youve lost me completely, what are you addressing? Alternative as a whole. Because really when you talk about Homosexuality you'r talking about alternative world as a whole. Since there are gay people that are tranny, gay people that are poly. It's all one in the same really. Or should say it's all attached into one thing. Oh and also up above you made it seem that having a person in the room and such is easy. It's not. It's very difficult and not for everyone. And, you said Hollywood MADE Gay and lesbian. That is BS. If you want to blame anyone or something on the more public of alternative world AND gay's and lesbians. Your on it right now. Meaning it's the internet. The internet is attaching people together. Much like this board brings those that enjoy sci-fi and fantasy things. Oh and the aid's in the gay world isn't that prevailent. Not as you would think. They have learned since the 90's. It's the straight counterparts that probably need more help. Jagger asked what was trust and what was alternative and kink. I answered in a round about way since I can't really put it in black and white. Since there is no black and white.
|
|
|
Post by voltage on Oct 6, 2006 8:54:06 GMT -5
I dont understand this statement.
Hollywood started a gay craze in the late 90', most of the gay outbreaks are portrayed in the media.
No doubt gays dont have near so muchrouble, since their parts dont fit. Maybe we need to look at it from an objective point of view. Why have all the casual sex? Maybe the reason why its spreading isnt because Gays and Straights have trouble, or one has more than the other, but maybe because if they stop screwing each other every night maybe the Aids will drastically vanish in a few generations.
Well for starters, you accuse me of clumping when you clump right here. Im talking about homosexuality, not being kinky. I do not wish to address all of the alternative world, since i is a twisted world and It would take a very long topic to address all of it, im talking about inidividuals, and only individuals, who feel they are trapped in the wrong sex and/or have an attraction for the opposite sex. Any combination of this is what I term as being gay. People get kinky all the time, doesnt mean they want to swap spit with their own sex. Second, where does all this clear definition come from? If there is no black and white then how do you say "Since there is no black and white." This is a concrete statement. If I wanted to use your logic, there is and isnt black and white since everything is grey. The grey logic is starti to annoy me since it doesn define anything, except what you think is the truth. This tactic does not stand to objective criticism though, so please choose a different approach. Third, you havent addressed the evolution issue. I know a lot of folks on this board believe in it, but you cant explain how it screwed up in making some people feel in the wrong body, or other who are twisted emotionally enough to go against scientific reproduction and try it with the same sex.
|
|
|
Post by jagggar on Oct 6, 2006 12:33:56 GMT -5
Thanks Aaron, that helps clears some stuff up.
Though when I said terms, I meant more like definitions, but what you said covered that enough for me to get a better idea of it.
I recently heard the absolute best explaination for why gay men seem more promiscous than straight men. It's not that straight men don't want to sleep around as much as gay men, it's that staight men have to deal with women who most often want monogamy so the straight man can't have all the women he wants.
I'm all for not clumping!! Let's not clump!
But there's still some clumpage here.
Being trapped in the wrong body is an issue with gender identity, not sexual orientation. The two have some very interesting interaction, but they aren't the same.
As I undertand trans-, transgendered are people who feel that they have the wrong body while transsexuals are people who have undergone gender reasignment so they can feel that their body and mind match.
|
|