|
Post by jagggar on Oct 4, 2006 13:12:06 GMT -5
Facts are easially measured. Facts are how tall someone is or what color is the shoe or what temperture it is.
Truth is different. Truth is more philosophical in nature.
Factually, if you're not careful around a source of great heat, you are likely to be injured because your cells don't mesh well with the high tempatures.
Truthfully, if you mess around with something dangerous, you're likely to end up getting hurt.
|
|
|
Post by voltage on Oct 4, 2006 18:04:14 GMT -5
Ahhhh but is it not also truth that if you touch the stove you will suffer physical injury?
|
|
|
Post by jagggar on Oct 4, 2006 20:28:11 GMT -5
That's one of the places where I run into problems with the English language. Hmm, let's see if I can come up with the right words. . .
There are Statements of Fact. They're the ones mentioned above. Height, Weight, Tempeture and such.
There are Statements of Truth. They're the ones that tend to speak of intangablities.
Statements can either be correct or incorrect.
|
|
|
Post by voltage on Oct 5, 2006 9:23:37 GMT -5
True or False.......Falling off a ladder usually results in pysical injury if you are at least 9' high.
|
|
|
Post by jagggar on Oct 5, 2006 10:49:55 GMT -5
See, this ain't workin' so well because I'm trying to set up specific defnitions to help further the understanding of my point, but you're using them in the traditional lesser sense. And yes, I know setting up specific definitions can be dangerous because you can define orange to mean something random like "Jewish Nazi Lover", but the definitions I'm trying to set forth, I feel are within the bounds of Truth and Fact already, I'm just trying to make a clear distinction between the two. Also, I've never fallen off a ladder, and don't intend to just to properly answer it.
Assuming that you would likely hurt yourself from said fall, my answer would look something like this:
"Falling off a ladder usually results in pysical injury if you are at least 9' high." is a correct Statement of Fact.
|
|
|
Post by voltage on Oct 5, 2006 13:44:47 GMT -5
So a fact is not true? Or a truth not fact?
|
|
|
Post by jagggar on Oct 11, 2006 11:47:56 GMT -5
I've been trying to figure out how to respond. It's a difficult thing to explain. But I'm going to try quoting you from elsewhere. Its what my interpretation of facts is based on. The reason why evolutionists and me dont get along isnt because we have different facts, but different interpretations. The "facts" are Facts and the "interpertations" are Truths. Don't get me wrong here, I believe in an ultimately objective reality for both Truth and Fact where they kind of meld. But I think Objective Reality is kinda a new topic.
|
|
|
Post by voltage on Oct 11, 2006 15:24:51 GMT -5
Truth: 1. the true or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the truth. 2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement. 3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths. 4. the state or character of being true. 5. actuality or actual existence. 6. an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude. 7. honesty; integrity; truthfulness. 8. (often initial capital letter) ideal or fundamental reality apart from and transcending perceived experience: the basic truths of life. 9. agreement with a standard or original. 10. accuracy, as of position or adjustment. 11. Archaic. fidelity or constancy.
Fact: 1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact. 2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact. 3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth. 4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable. 5. Law. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence. Compare question of fact, question of law. —Idioms 6. after the fact, Law. after the commission of a crime: an accessory after the fact. 7. before the fact, Law. prior to the commission of a crime: an accessory before the fact. 8. in fact, actually; really; indeed: In fact, it was a wonder that anyone survived.
Im challenging you because you are trying to make distinctions between two definitions that do not comply with the modern english language. We do not want to confuse terms, because even if we made those distinctions here you would go somewhere else and proboably confuse the people you attempt to discuss with.
|
|
|
Post by jagggar on Oct 11, 2006 15:51:02 GMT -5
I admit that I'm probably crossing the line from normal definitions into jargon. I probably wouldn't automatically assume people knew what I was talking about elsewhere, but you understand what I'm trying to communicate?
I'd say I'm emphasising Truth 8 and Fact 3 (and Fact 2 to a lesser degree).
|
|
|
Post by voltage on Oct 11, 2006 17:19:21 GMT -5
Yes jaggar, I see that truth does mean what the 8th definition is and fact does mean what definiton 3 is and 2, but your trying to say thats all that they are. theres more definitions, so you can't possibly say that truth is differnt than fact completely. Now saying that truth and fact are different in a specific case would be fine, dependijng on the case. However not generally.
|
|
|
Post by elena on Oct 12, 2006 1:54:50 GMT -5
Oh come on, Voltage. He's clearly defined what he means. If he'd just randomly thrown this out without any kind of explanation, ok, I could see your point. But as it is, what would you like him to do, create gibberish words for his terms?
But to go back to the original question. I think a certain amount of what you're looking at is qualitative versus quantitative. Quantities can be measured absolutely, and are thus fact. They are also true. But to describe something- is that truth, or is it interpretation? Essentially, to be a fact it must also be true, but a truth does not have to be a fact.
Incidentally, this instantly brought a book to mind, where the authro discusses how something may not really have happened, but it is True. So if you aren't severely troubled by reading (Vietnam) war stories, I'd suggest 'The Things They Carried' by Tim O'Brien.
|
|
|
Post by voltage on Oct 12, 2006 8:57:07 GMT -5
Facts are easially measured. Facts are how tall someone is or what color is the shoe or what temperture it is. Truth is different. Truth is more philosophical in nature. Factually, if you're not careful around a source of great heat, you are likely to be injured because your cells don't mesh well with the high tempatures. Truthfully, if you mess around with something dangerous, you're likely to end up getting hurt. Dont get on my case, im responding to his original post.
|
|