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Post by jagggar on Sept 21, 2006 11:10:40 GMT -5
This in a sense is true. Most of the knowledge has, in the past, been kept to Coven members and such, but with the internet and a more 'open' environment, those secrets are coming out into the open. Which I think is a good thing. Secrecy leads to suspision and distrust. The more knowledge that is out there about this form of belief the better. It allows people to make their own decisions on it rather than just taking someone's word one it. When I say secret knowledge, I don't mean something like the Elemenati that's a "cool club"* with a secret password to get into the club house. By secret knowledge I mean using things such as Ouiji and Tarot to get answers to questions we're "not supposed to know the answers to". Of course, now this brings up the question of what "secret knowledge" is. I also have a dreadful lack of knowledge about Wicca and Neo-Paganism, so in reality there could be no explicit occultic things in them, but the occult could be uncondemned and widely used by adherents. *Cool club is in quotes because I don't want to degrade Wicca by calling it a club. And sure, there probably is some scarcastic jealously of the Elemenati seeping in because I suck at riddles. Those who claim to be but aren't are a problem for both groups. I'd say we just summed up the three types of claimers. 1. There are those who are "religious but not spiritual" who, in Christianity give God 1-4 hours a week. They'll put down Christian on a survey, but it doesn't really effect their everyday lives. 2. There are those who claim to be something they're not, often to avoid persectuion or ridicule. 3. There are those who claim to be something when they only have a shallow understanding of what they're claiming. They can have scary hints of fanboy/fangirl-ism to them. The last group will either find a new religion once the fad of the current one wears off or they'll buckle down and actually study what it is once they get out of their fandom phase. The second group gets moved from their claimed faith to their real faith. I'm not sure how big of a statistial change it would make. The first group, oh the first group. . . Depending on the religion and the definition (continued below) you have to decide if those who suck at putting their faith into action count or not. "Spiritually Dead" probably won't get many checks if you put it as an option on a survey. Then you've got the whole issue of definition. Is a Christian anyone who says they're a Christian? Do Christians have to act or talk a certian way? A real crossover could be if you can consider Gnostic Christainity to be occultic. I've heard one Christian say that Gandhi was more Christian than he knew or than he admited (can't remeber which, and can't find my notes) becaue he did act in a very Christ-like manner. The next week, I got on the Internet and found another Christian shouting that this guy was a heretic and one person leaving a comment on the article said that all those who attended should repent or be considered enemies of the cross. If you add up the numbers on that pie chart, it's kinda funny since it comes to 102%. The source site admits to the inaccuracies from rounding and that adherence to a faith isn't always exclusive as reasons for the higher than average total. Actually I Wiki-ed it. (Is Wiki a verb yet?) I knew they were all Abrhamic faiths, I just had to find something credible which said so. I didn't however, know Bahá'í was considered Abrahamic.
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Post by voltage on Sept 22, 2006 6:47:54 GMT -5
Im glad you found that link, it will enforce my point.
Abraham had a child with Sarah and another with a maidservant Hagar.
The child with Sarah was named Isaac(sound familiar) and the other Ishmael. These two kids were the start of two opposing groups, one was the line of christ, Isaac, But this is old testament so there were no Christians, in fact there were no Jews yet. Ishmael was a child born out of doubt of God. Abraham didnt think his wife could have another child so he slept with the maidservant. Isaac continued the line, and Ishmael created a race of people against the line of Isaac. Jews against Muslims.
What im talking about is beliefs. Everyone is saying "theyre related theyre the same they worship the same God." and im telling you, your wrong. It does not say anywhere in the bible to go kill the Muslims, or anybody else. ONce more if your looking at old testament look at context. However in the Islamic countries, they rejoice in the streets at the sight of a detonated car bomb. why? because they are nt the same. They are worshipping a manufactured God, who enjoys the sight of death and destruction.
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Post by Aaron on Sept 22, 2006 6:51:19 GMT -5
Im glad you found that link, it will enforce my point. Abraham had a child with Sarah and another with a maidservant Hagar. The child with Sarah was named Isaac(sound familiar) and the other Ishmael. These two kids were the start of two opposing groups, one was the line of christ, Isaac, But this is old testament so there were no Christians, in fact there were no Jews yet. Ishmael was a child born out of doubt of God. Abraham didnt think his wife could have another child so he slept with the maidservant. Isaac continued the line, and Ishmael created a race of people against the line of Isaac. Jews against Muslims. What im talking about is beliefs. Everyone is saying "theyre related theyre the same they worship the same God." and im telling you, your wrong. It does not say anywhere in the bible to go kill the Muslims, or anybody else. ONce more if your looking at old testament look at context. However in the Islamic countries, they rejoice in the streets at the sight of a detonated car bomb. why? because they are nt the same. They are worshipping a manufactured God, who enjoys the sight of death and destruction. Okay so they are different but I would think those that blow up and bomb Abortion clinic's and kill homosexual's all praise one another. I saw a documentary where they were giving these guys awards and pats on the back. Even selling books and t-shirts praising them and saying what they did was God's justice and that they are working for the Lord and such. Sounds a heck like the Islamic people rejoicing at the sight of a dead body.
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Post by voltage on Sept 22, 2006 7:03:22 GMT -5
Extremists Extremists, those i dont agree with. If any christian you see on television, well dont trust anyone on television period. Wether they say they are a christian or not. Blowing up an aboriton clinic doesnt make you a great christian, it jsut makes you infamous. In the islamic countries If you not Islam your infidels, something to be destroyed.
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Post by Aaron on Sept 22, 2006 7:20:09 GMT -5
Extremists Extremists, those i dont agree with. If any christian you see on television, well dont trust anyone on television period. Wether they say they are a christian or not. Blowing up an aboriton clinic doesnt make you a great christian, it jsut makes you infamous. In the islamic countries If you not Islam your infidels, something to be destroyed. But, it's the same mentalities. I can tell you right now that there are Christian's and at times I would put you underneath this banner of "To worship or believe in anything else NOT of God is to commit the biggest sin on the planet". See same mentality. Just not spoken. It's like after freeing the slaves all the white people in the land still kept them down and such ..but everyone knew it. Just kept it under the surface. Which is probably still happening to a degree even now.
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Post by voltage on Sept 22, 2006 8:18:11 GMT -5
I think someone wrapped up in a religion is lost. Everyone sins, there isnt any perfect people, and a sin is enough to send you to hell, then how can sins be big or little? The effects are different, for instance someone whos cut off their limbs for budda isnt going to have any limbs if they become a christian, as opposed to someone who doesnt confuse themselves in buddha teachings. (example dont jump me)
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Post by jagggar on Sept 22, 2006 12:25:50 GMT -5
Im glad you found that link, it will enforce my point. Could you explain exactly what on that page supports your point? And could someone explain why there isn't a topic on Islam if it keeps coming up in every third topic? I don't mind discussing Islam, but I'd rather see discussion about Occultism becoming or not becoming a big religion in this topic.
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Post by Aaron on Sept 22, 2006 14:23:58 GMT -5
True and don't know. Generally it gets tossed in someways. I think someone mentioned that in Islam have to be totally one hundred percent for them. Then I know I come along and say that it sounds alot like Christianity.
Was mentioned that all religions have close ties. Then it was mentioned that Judism and Islam and Christianity are the same. Volt came into say other wise and it grew from there. Each side still believing in what they believe in.
I think the whole Islam deal coming in is that that is the Big Evil. Much like Russia was during the Cold War. Russian and Communism is going to take over this very world..runn...run...run for your life. -shakes My head-.
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Post by voltage on Sept 25, 2006 8:53:22 GMT -5
Oh yes, i already have my world domination map. starting with the forum naturally. topics change alot jagggar, jsut get used to it. Or start a new topic. Your post reinforced what i was saying since its true that Islam and christianity are related. Im trying to debate wether they are the same. They are related (all religions are related somehow) but they are not the same structure or belief systems. Abrhamic religions are what i described in a post right after yours. By the way, wiki can pretty much be modified anyway, so trusting it with statistics isnt a reliable source.
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Post by Aaron on Oct 17, 2006 4:41:56 GMT -5
You know I was making dinner last night and it occured to me I would say that the big two at least in USA would be Wiccan and Christianity. I'v only known one muslim and they weren't even arab but white people.
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Post by voltage on Oct 19, 2006 23:20:46 GMT -5
Lol, I cant say for sure. Religions are like that, you cant see the flase from the real, so If I gave an estimate Id say inconclusive.
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