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Post by Enchant on Jul 19, 2006 16:44:05 GMT -5
Occult beleifs are some of the oldest beleives in the world. Most relgions have taken from the occult and derived them to fit thier own views, however it never has been given its due, and new religions such as Christianity has taken the crown for the top relgion.....With the media cashing in on the increasing growth of the paranormal and occult, and with the laws continuiously changing, such,and the in your face disputes caused by the other religious orders and so on....Do you think the Occult is on its way to becoming the largest beleived religion in the world? Why or why not?
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Post by Aaron on Jul 19, 2006 20:58:14 GMT -5
hmmI have no clue though. I think that ALL religions is mystism. Now I know the christians are going to Dog me for even saying such a thing. But, it's true. I mean you believe that a Man a Man can somehow wash away your sin's. A man that died and came back alive. That is pretty mystism in of it's self. So yeah. but, think it comforts people. It's the safe "mystism". While other isn't.
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Post by The Goddess Alexia on Jul 20, 2006 0:31:07 GMT -5
I guess what it comes down to for me...seeing as Paganism belongs in this category....is that its not to be the top, jsut to clarify all the lies and be accepted thats key
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Post by Aaron on Jul 20, 2006 12:32:20 GMT -5
Yeah and in the other would say Pagan. But, pagan's I think will Always scare people. Because there is always going to have people that are going to use that fear to there own good..and make money from it.
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Post by Mistress Rell on Jul 21, 2006 15:20:22 GMT -5
The funny thing about Paganism nowadays is that it does'nt resemble anything of what it use to be like thousands of years ago when it was the main form of belief. Like Christianity, it has been reshaped for this day and age. THere are no blood sacrifices, or magestic temples dedicated to the Gods and Goddesses. Just us simple folk who are trying to practise our beliefs under constant scrutany and persicution.
Kinda the same way Christians started off.
Irony? I think so.
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Post by Enchant on Jul 26, 2006 9:18:04 GMT -5
I find it interesting how most religions claim there's to be the true relgiion when in most cases they are all relatively new in retrospct.....but because of the arrogance and thier pride, they are the ones pushing followers towards anouther direction....
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Post by Mistress Rell on Jul 27, 2006 7:20:23 GMT -5
True Enchant. I believe that Christianity, Judism and Islam are all relitivly 'new' beliefs. Coming into their own just in the last three thousand years. But what gets me is that some branches of Christianity claim that they're is the right way when all three worship the same God.
The only ones that would be older is Paganism and Hindu. Possible even Shinto(sp) for the Asian continent.
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Post by Aaron on Jul 27, 2006 21:42:47 GMT -5
True Enchant. I believe that Christianity, Judism and Islam are all relitivly 'new' beliefs. Coming into their own just in the last three thousand years. But what gets me is that some branches of Christianity claim that they're is the right way when all three worship the same God. The only ones that would be older is Paganism and Hindu. Possible even Shinto(sp) for the Asian continent. That is the thing. Christians believe salvations THROUGH Christ. So you really are worshipping Christ and God. Although to I'd say 40 percent of the religion as of these days God, Jesus Christ, holy Spirit is one in the same. There is no difference. Even though in the religion there is.
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Post by voltage on Aug 17, 2006 13:42:01 GMT -5
hmmI have no clue though. I think that ALL religions is mysticism. Now I know the Christians are going to Dog me for even saying such a thing. But, it's true. I mean you believe that a Man a Man can somehow wash away your sin's. A man that died and came back alive. That is pretty mysticism in of it's self. So yeah. but, think it comforts people. It's the safe "mysticism". While other isn't. (correction) A man who committed no sin, a man who could only accomplish such a thing because he is the Son of God, and since we cannot save ourselves by any means, only through him. John 3:16 Romans 3:23 Romans 6:23 Christianity has only been reshaped by those who do not want to hear truth but fabricate one that makes them feel good. The reason why there were blood sacrifices was to atone for sin. Jesus Christ died without sinning, and offered himself as the perfect sacrifice. The need for sacrifices is not needed, Jesus has replaced that. The reason we don't have majestic temples, is because when Jesus came, he made it possible for us to know God, and not have to ask a high priest or a prophet what we should do, for Now God is with us. An interesting idea, after all there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with your ideas, since we do have this nice forum discussion. fact is you cant stand on the side of the ball game and say "i wonder why they think they're right?" sometime or another someones going to ask you flat out which is your side and you will be left speechless. Judaism somewhat does not believe that Jesus was who he said he was. Islam worships Allah and Mohammad, and Christianity worships Jesus Christ. Not exactly the same things there, and of course i wouldn't expect you to understand. 3,000 years ago Christ came. thats more than a "new age" move. thats a tidal wave and if you go into more in depth study of the bible, you'll find that Jesus was prophesied about more than once or twice. I don't see why your still in the discussion, after all agnostics have much better things to do then talk about non existent entities created by the unexplainable need for a higher power? am i close? Anyway to summarize, a discussion about occults vs Christianity cannot be discussed if you don't have the other side. Frankly i think occult practices are all derived from the fact that people don't want to believe in God, because then o my goodness wed have to admit that we are not in control and we are not good people. But of course that cant be done so we come up with feely good religions that mostly revolve around people, not anything else.
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Post by Aaron on Aug 23, 2006 11:49:37 GMT -5
hmmI have no clue though. I think that ALL religions is mysticism. Now I know the Christians are going to Dog me for even saying such a thing. But, it's true. I mean you believe that a Man a Man can somehow wash away your sin's. A man that died and came back alive. That is pretty mysticism in of it's self. So yeah. but, think it comforts people. It's the safe "mysticism". While other isn't. (correction) A man who committed no sin, a man who could only accomplish such a thing because he is the Son of God, and since we cannot save ourselves by any means, only through him. John 3:16 Romans 3:23 Romans 6:23 Christianity has only been reshaped by those who do not want to hear truth but fabricate one that makes them feel good. The reason why there were blood sacrifices was to atone for sin. Jesus Christ died without sinning, and offered himself as the perfect sacrifice. The need for sacrifices is not needed, Jesus has replaced that. The reason we don't have majestic temples, is because when Jesus came, he made it possible for us to know God, and not have to ask a high priest or a prophet what we should do, for Now God is with us. An interesting idea, after all there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with your ideas, since we do have this nice forum discussion. fact is you cant stand on the side of the ball game and say "i wonder why they think they're right?" sometime or another someones going to ask you flat out which is your side and you will be left speechless. Judaism somewhat does not believe that Jesus was who he said he was. Islam worships Allah and Mohammad, and Christianity worships Jesus Christ. Not exactly the same things there, and of course i wouldn't expect you to understand. 3,000 years ago Christ came. thats more than a "new age" move. thats a tidal wave and if you go into more in depth study of the bible, you'll find that Jesus was prophesied about more than once or twice. I don't see why your still in the discussion, after all agnostics have much better things to do then talk about non existent entities created by the unexplainable need for a higher power? am i close? Anyway to summarize, a discussion about occults vs Christianity cannot be discussed if you don't have the other side. Frankly i think occult practices are all derived from the fact that people don't want to believe in God, because then o my goodness wed have to admit that we are not in control and we are not good people. But of course that cant be done so we come up with feely good religions that mostly revolve around people, not anything else. First I believe in Karma. And then I play the Devil...meaning I come up with ideas that arn't comfortable for people. I question things and I look at them at different sides. I don't like nor will ever get over some man that really has no clue *Anymore then me* standing on a pulpit telling Me "such and such" is evil and bad. Am I agnostic? Meaning I guess that I don't believe in anything? I do actually believe in things. Just nothing that would make you smile and say "he's a christian". Because, I'm not a hardliner or one that believes that the Bible is actually true. I think it's all metaphor. But, that is just me. Judisim and Muslim's and Christianity is all from the same tree. It's justt hat Jews don't see Jesus as their "One" sorta speak. And, Muslim's don't believe in any and think that Muhammed is above them. Although they do believe that the other's were prophets. At least in Jewish and Muslim case. Since in Christianty that would be like working for Satan to believe that. and, it is pretty new even though it has been 3,000 years ago. I'd say Pagan religion is the oldest among all the beliefs. Actually, If I tell them I'm on neither I dont think I'll be left speechless. I thnk that if you really can't accept that there is still a chance of this not working out then your no longer in a real frame of mind and just some bumbling idiot. Much less like what the Public face of Christianity is doing now. Helping Carl Rove and group..making it so that if you think differently from these two intity's then your going to hell or not an American. Which is pretty un-American to really preach that but it's happening.
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Post by Mistress Rell on Aug 24, 2006 14:01:02 GMT -5
hmmI have no clue though. I think that ALL religions is mysticism. Now I know the Christians are going to Dog me for even saying such a thing. But, it's true. I mean you believe that a Man a Man can somehow wash away your sin's. A man that died and came back alive. That is pretty mysticism in of it's self. So yeah. but, think it comforts people. It's the safe "mysticism". While other isn't. (correction) A man who committed no sin, a man who could only accomplish such a thing because he is the Son of God, and since we cannot save ourselves by any means, only through him. John 3:16 Romans 3:23 Romans 6:23 Christianity has only been reshaped by those who do not want to hear truth but fabricate one that makes them feel good. The reason why there were blood sacrifices was to atone for sin. Jesus Christ died without sinning, and offered himself as the perfect sacrifice. The need for sacrifices is not needed, Jesus has replaced that. The reason we don't have majestic temples, is because when Jesus came, he made it possible for us to know God, and not have to ask a high priest or a prophet what we should do, for Now God is with us. I agree somewhat with that. The reason there are so many different branches of Christianity is is, in part, due to corruptness within the Catholic church itself. Prodestans were created from groups who protested against the corruption of the chruch, Lutherans became a branch because of the same thing. Anglican (which I have been told by a catholic priest is the coloest to Catholosismsp) was created so Henry the VI could remarry. Also, Jesus did not set out to create a whole new religion. He was a Jew, and was only interested in shoing a different point of view, just like seveal other 'teachers' in his time. It wasn't until after hid death, that his brother James, (who was his legal heir) took over his ministry and set about creating Catholism. As for the majestic temples, have you not seen the cathedrals that have been constructed around the world? Some of the worlds most beautiful buildings are these Cathedrals. It has only been 2,000 years, not three, since the arrival of Jesus. Give or take a decade or so. But Christianity still falls into the "young religion' catagory when it is compared to beliefs such as Judeism, Hindu and even Paganism. The two latter are thousands[/b] of years older than Christianity. o.k. Jews did not believe he was the missaha(sp), because there were to be three signs fortelling of his coming[/b], and to the jewish community, this did not happen. The do consider him to be a great profet, as do Muslims, and he is mentioned in both the Koran and the Tora as a profet. I am assuming that you are speaking for the Christian side? Then, I shall speak, and have been speaking, for the Pagan side as I am a practicing Wiccan. The occult that this disscusion is relevent to, I am assuming again, is paganism. But I have found that other 'occult' beliefs center around a hight power. There is, and most likely will always be a need for believing in a higher power. Whether it is God, Allah, of Akasha, we crave for something that we can pray to, or ask for guidence in dark times.
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Post by Aaron on Aug 25, 2006 21:44:38 GMT -5
We all believe in something and even if you believe in other religions are you are believing in that you ARE NOT in control of things. That is partially what all religions have in commen.
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Post by voltage on Aug 25, 2006 22:57:49 GMT -5
FIrst off, i dont believe in a public face o christianity except christ himself, so if you could be so kind as to not refer to me as a bumbling idiot who wants to go get drunk with gibson and the other person you mentioned.
Believing in everything is pretty darn vain. i dont really feel like discussing anything with someone who says they believe everything but dont go for that bumbling christian stuff, its this sort of thing which points out pretty directly what you are avoiding. youd rather not talk about christianity or accept because it doesnt make you feel good about yourself. you dont want to admit that anything can save you except yourself and your "magick" and "metaphors".
Islam is not from the same tree. If you really think so im afraid you are mistaken. FOr pete's sake go google islam and read about it.
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Post by jagggar on Sept 21, 2006 0:43:44 GMT -5
No. First of all, it's because I don't see "the Occult" as a religion. I think of the Occult as covering pratices that have to do with "secret knowledge." The closest I can get to "the Occult" being a religion is having it be the family of religions which embrace occult pratices. Compared to Christianity (since it seems the topic is kinda "Occult VS Christianity") which is the largest religion, covering about a 33% of the population ( Wiki), the Occultic family of religions has quite a ways to go to catch up to it and quite a few other religions to pass first. IIRC, Islam is the fastest growing religion currently. Another reason I think the "Occult Boom" won't lead to a huge conversion to occultic religions is because I know some of my friends who've claimed to be neo-pagans or wiccan were more into the "pop occult". While media hype can get people interested in something, it can draw their attention from the object of hype to the distorted hype version. Some people might become interested in Greek mythology after watching Hercules and Xena, but others might just accept the episodes as authentic Greek myth (shortened to fit within the timeslot of course). Christianity and Islam are both Abrahamic religions.
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Post by Mistress Rell on Sept 21, 2006 7:43:30 GMT -5
This in a sense is true. Most of the knowledge has, in the past, been kept to Coven members and such, but with the internet and a more 'open' environment, those secrets are coming out into the open. Which I think is a good thing. Secrecy leads to suspision and distrust. The more knowledge that is out there about this form of belief the better. It allows people to make their own decisions on it rather than just taking someone's word one it. The only problem I have with any kind of census about religion and beleifs is that although someone can claim they are Christian, doesn't always mean that they practise said beleif. Saying and doing are two different things. I know there was an increase in attendance at churches after 9/11, but there is still a shortage of men who enter the priesthood. it would be interesting to see what the attendace record is now, 5 years later. Also, I personally know several people who believe the same as I do, but due to possible ridicule, would say they are Christian. This is so very true. I have seen it on several sites. Young girls and guys who pride themselves of being a 'Witch', and may have a few things related, but most of their knowledge comes from the mass media. They're called 'Fluffybunnies', and although they can be slightly annoying at times, I commend them for their sense of individualality. Looks like you 'Googled' it. ;D Very good information. Thank-you for the link.
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