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Post by Enchant on Aug 13, 2005 17:01:32 GMT -5
Alright, So I was posting about the belief of "GOD" and I had an question pop up in my head....who was Jesus really? I mean, for those who are true beleivers of the cristian faith, they beleive he is God's one and only son...fair enough....others believe God does''t exist therefore...for those who dont believe....who was Jesus? There are so mant specualtions and religious beliefs out there , who is actually the correct one?
I was thinking , when Jesus was around spreading the "word" christianity wasn't a known religion, there were other entities for different cultures to believe in...so is it plausible that he nothing more then a David Koresh, or Jim Jones, or ones of these type guys? Not that I am critsizing anouthers religion, this is just a question of hypothosis. What if he was indeed a charismic and intelligent man, who ended up having an occult -like following.
They began spreading the word, that Jesus was gifted and claimed to be the son of god...Is it plausible he did have gifts ...like a healer and what not...something that has been seen in many others...but in that time and age, was considered miraculous....causing more beleivers in the cause...and soon, we have a David Koresh or Jim Jones time following.
If you think about it...they both claimed to be close to god, they both preached the word....Jesus sacrificed himself....which according to cathlosism is a sin.....Jim Jones did a mass suicide in the matter of this faith....you get the idea...what do you think is the proof that Jesus is the one and only son of God...when religion claims all of man to be.? If we can't prove god, how do we prove Jesus....or is it just a matter in faith of a story and beleif passed down by the word of man? what you think....deep huh?
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Post by Aaron on Aug 13, 2005 23:37:44 GMT -5
Actually they have found that there was a man named Jesus crucified and also that he lived. Now the thing is too now weither he's the son of god and that the devil saw him in the garden the night the men came to take him and all that? Well that is for you'r own self to believe. Which really will always be someone. To Me yeah existed. Although I think he wasn't that virginal and that his mom wasn't a virgin. Think about it. Put yourself in that time or better yet say he wasn't born yet. Then a woman comes up to you and says she had a baby but was a virgin? Kinda wack to Me but I think he was what the books said now the supernatural elements to it all? Nahhhhh don't know about that.
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Post by Enchant on Aug 14, 2005 3:20:00 GMT -5
See I dont know what to believe....I mean there are so many ways to interpet things, and I agree....couldn't mary have just lied? I am not try to be sacraligious.(sp?) just putting outt theories and questions ...it is plausiable...that during that time a supposed virgin girl says no I neeeever did anything..I am pure....and then gives birth with her boyfreind around....then as he grew older shows unique capabilities such as healing, or telekensis or what not...and then people are like ...ooo he was a virgin birth and has powers of god...and then he realizes that he can do good in the world...so he starts beleiveing in his "gifts" and claims to be gifted as the son of his god....in order to bring forth a new religion...he travels the world being a evangelous spreading his new religion.
Then he pulls a the big epiphany he will die for the cause, its his destiny type deal...so he and his team/freinds/ followers decide to have one last supper...indulge in the things before the big day...but wait whos not part of the group? yep its Judas....he's not buying it....he started out a beleiver, but hmmm what changed his mind? Greed ? lust? perhaps, but if he beleived , if he was a true beleiver and there was actual proof that Jesus was who he claimed to be...then why would Judas be swayed knowing that no matter what he was going to Heaven. Maybe he was a pawn in the greater scheme of things...and Jesus set him up to betray therm ...who knows...
so they crucify Jesus amoung the other men. He eventual dies...they take him to the cave , and few days later he miraculously has risen....could if just be possible they saw a mans ghost? I mena he did have a bit of the touch ....anyways...I think it is plausible....do I beleive it? maybe...maybe I think there is always a different point of veiw in interpetting things like this. Why is it that every church claims thebible as the true word of god, but they interpet it differently....who is the correct way? To me in some retrospect, I feel that the churches are all like a religious goverment. It runs like a goverment, feels like a goverment, and is controlling like a goverment....only it has more power in most cases than a goverment.
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Post by Enchant on Aug 14, 2005 3:20:47 GMT -5
See I dont know what to believe....I mean there are so many ways to interpet things, and I agree....couldn't mary have just lied? I am not try to be sacraligious.(sp?) just putting outt theories and questions ...it is plausiable...that during that time a supposed virgin girl says no I neeeever did anything..I am pure....and then gives birth with her boyfreind around....then as he grew older shows unique capabilities such as healing, or telekensis or what not...and then people are like ...ooo he was a virgin birth and has powers of god...and then he realizes that he can do good in the world...so he starts beleiveing in his "gifts" and claims to be gifted as the son of his god....in order to bring forth a new religion...he travels the world being a evangelous spreading his new religion. Then he pulls a the big epiphany he will die for the cause, its his destiny type deal...so he and his team/freinds/ followers decide to have one last supper...indulge in the things before the big day...but wait whos not part of the group? yep its Judas....he's not buying it....he started out a beleiver, but hmmm what changed his mind? Greed ? lust? perhaps, but if he beleived , if he was a true beleiver and there was actual proof that Jesus was who he claimed to be...then why would Judas be swayed knowing that no matter what he was going to Heaven. Maybe he was a pawn in the greater scheme of things...and Jesus set him up to betray therm ...who knows... so they crucify Jesus amoung the other men. He eventual dies...they take him to the cave , and few days later he miraculously has risen....could if just be possible they saw a mans ghost? I mena he did have a bit of the touch ....anyways...I think it is plausible....do I beleive it? maybe...maybe I think there is always a different point of veiw in interpetting things like this. Why is it that every church claims thebible as the true word of god, but they interpet it differently....who is the correct way? To me in some retrospect, I feel that the churches are all like a religious goverment. It runs like a goverment, feels like a goverment, and is controlling like a goverment....only it has more power in most cases than a goverment. please keep in mind this is all what if? I wasn't there so I really dont know...do any of us?
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Post by Aaron on Aug 14, 2005 12:27:43 GMT -5
your still speaking sacralige your questioning that is never a good thing at least from waht I see. You suck it up and you take it all. But, then again christianity isn't My thing and generally were very controversial. The only way a person is going to know for sure 100 percent is if we could go back into time.
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Post by Enchant on Aug 14, 2005 13:04:21 GMT -5
your still speaking sacralige your questioning that is never a good thing at least from waht I see. You suck it up and you take it all. But, then again christianity isn't My thing and generally were very controversial. The only way a person is going to know for sure 100 percent is if we could go back into time. ahh and the lies part of the question ,doesn't it? If you do not belive in God, how can you then beleive in Jesus? I am say8ing that from an aithest point of view this theory is plausible...I never said probable...It comes down to faith....those who put faith in "God" or those who put it in science...and if I was to be aetheist then would it be consider sacriligious, or just to the ones who do beleive...kinda makes one think... personally, I think all things are possbile...I dont take one religion over anouther, I am too small in the greater scheme of things to know which is the true one and which one isn't...I am more of a watcher of all, then a beleiver of one...I am just saying that back in that time...they might ahve seen things different...if they saw electricity, they would think I was godly....but we all know I am not ;D
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Post by Aaron on Aug 15, 2005 0:38:04 GMT -5
True one isn't better but also think of this. Out of all the different languages and words would it really make sense for everyone to call Jesus Jesus or God God in the world. Now take this over each area with there own language and dialect. That is one of the one's I always hear from the christian community. Which is this
"Well We know it's not god. It doesn't Say God".
Which to Me is just dumb. I'm sorry but if there was all religious books and all that said one thing I wouldn't really believe 'em. -shrugs- I probably wouldn't. It makes sense that there different and all.
Oh and the flood is in each book. Yes, different spots but they are there.
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Post by Enchant on Aug 15, 2005 5:04:56 GMT -5
I was watching a dcumentry last night ans as it would ahve it , it was based on the last supper and the truth behind the divinci codes...and according to alot of scientist , they beleive that the person on the Jesus right , "the place of honor" isn't a man but a women, they beleive it is plausible for jesus to have been married to Mary Magdaline...so aWho knows my thhypothesis might not be too far off.... kinda makes you think, how easily man can be swayed to bleeive in something so easily....I meas look at the Jim Jones and other occult leaders....I am not saying it is...I am saying its plausible.....
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Post by Aaron on Aug 16, 2005 13:00:13 GMT -5
-nods- I'm very aware of those beliefs. They did an interview and while the man said that he thought of it and all it's a hypothosis. They kept trying to pin him down to make him say he believed it whole heartidly. lol. Get prepared you think the right wing had fun blasting the book there going to be ranting and raving.. heck probably screaming more about it. Since they know it's going to have Tom Hanks in it. So it's going to be a big film. Yeah and then after Christ was crusified they fled the city and a small boy came with. They think it's his son. -shrugs- Who knows really. But, people are easily manipulated. Look at 9/11 and Iraq. For weeks on end ohhh there connected. No there not. There connected. No there not. It's like Yes. No. Yes. No. Yes. No. Never know what is true these days. Reminds Me of Nixon.
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Post by The Goddess Alexia on Aug 30, 2005 10:39:48 GMT -5
I have to agree with the first part of the last thing Piffy just said. I actually watched that on PBS a long time ago, I know exactly what documentry you're tlaking about piffy. Think about it. Christ was a thrity something man. He would not have been allowed to walk around w/o at LEAST one wife. Tradition dictated it so,a dn I'll bet the laws back then did too. Especially if you think about the part of the world that all of this takes place in, that just adds to the husband and wife theory, doesn't it? If you look at the painting, you see that christ and the person to his rith are wearing the same colors, just opposite of eachother right? Well thats how spouces dressed way back then. Mostly for market so you knew what woman was with what man, but still my point stands.
As to WHO he actually was, I'm going to go with the skitzo theory. He claimed be be so in touch with god...well so did Joan of Arc. Then again she was also a woman so ya there is a difference there, but also look at it this way. people back then generally were married to some sore of reletive. Many times it was a blood relative. And in the present day we have learned what interbreeding can do to not just people but any living creature. Who's to say Mary and Joe wern't blood related, and thus resulted in a first born kid with Skitzofrenia. Of course they too would have to believe it. maybe Joe heard voices in his head that told him he never bedded his wife, and she was a pregnate virgin. And she either believed him, or just went with it. I'm sorry but I also find that hard to believe. He would have ravaged her on their wedding night and I think that based on history in general, you'd all agree with me.
SideNote: Please keep in mind I was raised Lutherin..I'm not anymore, but I was aised one, and I have always question so much about christianity, among other religious teachings, so I would ask you all to please not be affended by anything I might say. ^^
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Post by Aaron on Sept 12, 2005 16:02:31 GMT -5
I have to agree with the first part of the last thing Piffy just said. I actually watched that on PBS a long time ago, I know exactly what documentry you're tlaking about piffy. Think about it. Christ was a thrity something man. He would not have been allowed to walk around w/o at LEAST one wife. Tradition dictated it so,a dn I'll bet the laws back then did too. Especially if you think about the part of the world that all of this takes place in, that just adds to the husband and wife theory, doesn't it? If you look at the painting, you see that christ and the person to his rith are wearing the same colors, just opposite of eachother right? Well thats how spouces dressed way back then. Mostly for market so you knew what woman was with what man, but still my point stands. As to WHO he actually was, I'm going to go with the skitzo theory. He claimed be be so in touch with god...well so did Joan of Arc. Then again she was also a woman so ya there is a difference there, but also look at it this way. people back then generally were married to some sore of reletive. Many times it was a blood relative. And in the present day we have learned what interbreeding can do to not just people but any living creature. Who's to say Mary and Joe wern't blood related, and thus resulted in a first born kid with Skitzofrenia. Of course they too would have to believe it. maybe Joe heard voices in his head that told him he never bedded his wife, and she was a pregnate virgin. And she either believed him, or just went with it. I'm sorry but I also find that hard to believe. He would have ravaged her on their wedding night and I think that based on history in general, you'd all agree with me. SideNote: Please keep in mind I was raised Lutherin..I'm not anymore, but I was aised one, and I have always question so much about christianity, among other religious teachings, so I would ask you all to please not be affended by anything I might say. ^^ I think it's good to question and think. If not then just some droid. Although some in the christian community hate to fquestion and see it as something bad. -shrugs-. I doubt seriously he wasn't married or that he didn't have sex. Sorry but how many virgins of older men do you know that haven't had sex?
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Post by The Goddess Alexia on Sept 14, 2005 19:47:31 GMT -5
I have to agree with the first part of the last thing Piffy just said. I actually watched that on PBS a long time ago, I know exactly what documentry you're tlaking about piffy. Think about it. Christ was a thrity something man. He would not have been allowed to walk around w/o at LEAST one wife. Tradition dictated it so,a dn I'll bet the laws back then did too. Especially if you think about the part of the world that all of this takes place in, that just adds to the husband and wife theory, doesn't it? If you look at the painting, you see that christ and the person to his rith are wearing the same colors, just opposite of eachother right? Well thats how spouces dressed way back then. Mostly for market so you knew what woman was with what man, but still my point stands. As to WHO he actually was, I'm going to go with the skitzo theory. He claimed be be so in touch with god...well so did Joan of Arc. Then again she was also a woman so ya there is a difference there, but also look at it this way. people back then generally were married to some sore of reletive. Many times it was a blood relative. And in the present day we have learned what interbreeding can do to not just people but any living creature. Who's to say Mary and Joe wern't blood related, and thus resulted in a first born kid with Skitzofrenia. Of course they too would have to believe it. maybe Joe heard voices in his head that told him he never bedded his wife, and she was a pregnate virgin. And she either believed him, or just went with it. I'm sorry but I also find that hard to believe. He would have ravaged her on their wedding night and I think that based on history in general, you'd all agree with me. SideNote: Please keep in mind I was raised Lutherin..I'm not anymore, but I was aised one, and I have always question so much about christianity, among other religious teachings, so I would ask you all to please not be affended by anything I might say. ^^ I think it's good to question and think. If not then just some droid. Although some in the christian community hate to fquestion and see it as something bad. -shrugs-. I doubt seriously he wasn't married or that he didn't have sex. Sorry but how many virgins of older men do you know that haven't had sex? None...at all. Least someone agrees with me. And think about it, in our tme right now, is it really "acceptable" for a forty-something man to be a virgin? He'd get is arse teasted off, and back in that age it was so widely accepted to have several wives starting at like age 16, and it was basically law
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Post by Aaron on Sept 15, 2005 8:19:43 GMT -5
The longevity wasn't that long at all...so it would be 16. Besides at 16 boys were taught to go out and sleep with however many girls you want. Get drunk and do whatever you wanted but DONT get caught. Especially if you were a rich person and had wealth and power. While it was okay to do those things and women knew they were done it wasn't okay for it to be widley known.
An excellent example of that is Hamlet. Ophelia's dad doesn't want her to get with the Prince. He knows what men do and what not...he doesn't want her to be a woman of the night basically. But, it's okay for his son to go out and do what he just told his daughter he didn't want for her. Double standerd at its finest.
To be 30 40 year old in Jesus's time would be the same as if you were now and over 85. I think we all know what would happen for a 40 year old man beng a virgin. Just go see the movie. Sorry wasn't a joke but that is what it's based off of and good example.
If Jesus believe like I do...I think they say marriage because back then marriage meant alot of things and was a great feeling and such. Now it's not that way. So many walk around going "If He marry's me he'll love Me for ever". what idealistic crap is that? Should already love you if getting married. So pretty much I think it's just God's way of saying that in the end make sure that this is the right one for you. There is no going back and being a "born" again virgin. Once you know what it feels like can't take that away. So make sure that this person is the right one. Can you? Not 100 percent, but you can make sure that this person will treat that gift of virginity with dignity and respect. Then again that is Me and lots don't like that. Especially parents.
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Post by The Goddess Alexia on Sept 24, 2005 19:25:46 GMT -5
i agree with that last part...well I agree with majority of what you said, but ya that last is true, you can't go bcack and do it again, isn't possible i tell you. You get get to do it once so do it right is all nit comes down to,a dn if parents have issues with that sort of thinking w/e to them, their kids are gonna do it anyways.
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Post by Aaron on Sept 24, 2005 21:36:11 GMT -5
i agree with that last part...well I agree with majority of what you said, but ya that last is true, you can't go bcack and do it again, isn't possible i tell you. You get get to do it once so do it right is all nit comes down to,a dn if parents have issues with that sort of thinking w/e to them, their kids are gonna do it anyways. I can't really think of how else to balance it out and speak to the kid with dignity and respect and not there there idiots or that they don't know what all of it is. That is on all levels. Drugs to working on a car.
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